Breaking: Pakistan’s proxy war, Trump friendship & death: Big takeaways from PM Modi’s podcast with Lex Fridman…..Read More

In an ‘epic’ three-hour podcast with MIT researcher Lex Fridman, PM Narendra Modi covered several topics ranging from his childhood to his perspective on death and even India’s ties with Pakistan. The Indian leader held nothing back in his second podcast, saying that he hoped Islamabad would mend its ways and even praised US President Donald Trump for his ‘unwavering dedication’ to his country

When Prime Minister Narendra Modi speaks, the country listens and that’s what happened when the Indian leader sat down for an “epic three-hour podcast” with MIT researcher Lex Fridman on Sunday (March 16).

Speaking about the podcast, Fridman described it as “one of the most powerful conversations” of his life. The two spoke on a range of topics as diverse as PM Modi’s birthplace to India’s cultural heritage, and his association with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

This was PM Modi’s second podcast in his long and storied political career — the PM had earlier sat down for a podcast with entrepreneur and investor Nikhil Kamath in January.

If you missed the “epic” conversation, don’t worry. Here are the biggest moments from the three-hour chat that the PM had with Lex Fridman.

PM Modi and his childhood
PM Modi opened up about his early life and his childhood and reflected on his humble beginnings in his conversation with Fridman. He revealed that many of his life lessons he picked up at his father’s tea stall and from his mother who treated children with home remedies.

He recalled in his chat that he spent his childhood in a small home with no windows where his parents, siblings, uncles, aunts and grandparents lived. “My early life was spent in extreme poverty, but we never really felt the burden of poverty,” said PM Modi, adding, “Despite everything, these challenging circumstances of living in scarcity never left a mark on our minds.”

He added that he would attend school without shoes. However, when his uncle heard of this, he gave young Modi a pair of white canvas shoes. Having received the shoes, Modi’s next worry was how to keep them clean.

In the evening, after school was over, I would stay back for a while. I would go from classroom to classroom, collecting leftover pieces of chalk that the teachers had discarded. I would take the pieces of chalk home, soak them in water, mix them into a paste, and polish my canvas shoes with it, making them bright white again,” he said.

For me, those shoes were a treasured possession, a symbol of great wealth. And I don’t exactly know why, but from childhood, our mother was extremely particular about cleanliness. Perhaps that’s where we inherited that habit too,” Modi said.

PM Modi also opened up about his father and the impact that he left on the Indian leader. “Every morning, around 4:00 or 4:30 am, he would leave the house, walk long distances, visit several temples, and then reach his stall. He described how his father’s traditional leather shoes made a distinct tock, tock, tock sound as he walked through the village.

People in the village used to say that they could tell the time just by hearing his footsteps — ‘Oh yes, Mr. Damodar is on his way.’ Such was his discipline,” he recalled.

Lessons learned from ‘sacred’ RSS
In his chat with Fridman, PM Modi also opened up about his deep connection with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and how it has instilled patriotic values in him. He said he was thankful that the organisation had given him his life’s purpose. He said he felt blessed to have learned life’s values from a “sacred” organisation such as the RSS and even lauded it for working since 1925 to inspire people to dedicate themselves to the country.

Modi compared the RSS to the leftist Labour unions, saying: “Leftist unions say ‘Workers of the world, unite,’ but the RSS labour union says ‘Workers, unite the world.’ This reflects how the RSS instils its values in its approach.”

Modi opens up on 2002 riots
Among the many topics covered during the chat with Fridman, the 2002 Gujarat riots were also discussed with PM Modi saying that a false narrative was built but the judiciary cleared his name.

Modi said the perception that the 2002 riots were the biggest riots ever in Gujarat was an attempt to push misinformation. “If you review the data from before 2002, you will see that Gujarat faced frequent riots. Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence would erupt over trivial issues such as kite flying contests or even bicycle collisions,” Modi said.

The prime minister said the riots in Gujarat in 1969 lasted for more than six months and that was an era when he was nowhere on the political horizon.

Modi said the Godhra train burning incident took place barely three days after he was elected as a legislator of the Gujarat Assembly. He said that a fake narrative was spread regarding the Godhra case. “But, the courts investigated the matter thoroughly and found us completely innocent. Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts,” he said.

The prime minister said the most important thing was that Gujarat, which used to witness violence almost every year, has not seen riots since 2002.

They’ve waged a proxy war against us: PM on Pakistan
PM Modi also spoke about foreign policy, India’s ties with its neighbours, namely Pakistan. He described to Fridman how Pakistan has betrayed India despite efforts to improve ties.

When I became prime minister, I specially invited Pakistan to my swearing-in ceremony so we could turn over a new leaf. Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal. We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace. I believe even the people of Pakistan long for peace because even they must be weary of living in strife and unrest, they must have grown weary of relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed,” he said.

My first attempt at improving bilateral relations was when I invited my Pakistani counterpart to my swearing-in. It was a gesture of goodwill. It was a diplomatic gesture unlike any in decades. The very people who once questioned my approach to foreign policy were taken aback when they learned I had invited all SAARC heads of state and our then president, Mr Pranab Mukherjee beautifully captured that historic gesture in his memoir. This was a testament to how clear and confident India’s foreign policy had become. This sent a clear message to the world about India’s commitment to peace and harmony, but we didn’t get the desired outcome,” the PM added.

The PM further stated that he believed that even the public of Pakistan longed for peace because they would also be tired of living in strife where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed.

He also called out Pakistan’s long-standing role in fostering terrorism, emphasising that the world was no longer in doubt about where the roots of terror lie. Modi said that time and again, Pakistan has emerged as the epicentre of terror, causing immense suffering not just to India but to the entire world.

Modi added, “They have waged a proxy war against us.”

He also categorically stated that Pakistan’s actions aren’t an ideology. “What kind of ideology thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror? And we are not the sole victims of this menace. Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan. Let’s take the September 11 attacks for example,” PM Modi said, referring to how Osama bin Laden was found hiding in a house in Pakistan.

PM Modi’s AI predictions
Another subject that the podcast covered was the topic of Artificial Intelligence (AI) and its future. When asked about how India could emerge as an AI leader, PM Modi said that no matter what the world does with AI, it will remain incomplete without India.

PM Modi elaborated on his comment, saying, “I believe AI development is fundamentally a collaboration. Everyone involved supports one another through shared experiences and learning.”

Modi also said he believes that with AI, “humans are now being forced to reflect on what it truly means to be human”.

“This is the real power of AI. Because of the way AI functions, it has challenged how we perceive work itself. But human imagination is the fuel. AI can create many things based on that and in the future, it may achieve even more. Still, I firmly believe that no technology can ever replace the boundless creativity and imagination of the human mind,” he said.

Modi on Russia-Ukraine war

As the Russia-Ukraine war enters its fourth year, Fridman asked Modi what his take on the conflict was and where India stood on the matter. To this, PM Modi responded that India is not neutral but firmly committed to peace.

He said that the Russia-Ukraine conflict will only be resolved when both sides join the negotiation table, asserting that there can never be a resolution on the battlefield.

Highlighting his good relations with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Modi said that he can urge Russia that war is not the solution while reminding Ukraine that battlefields do not bring real solutions.

“I have a close relationship with Russia and Ukraine alike. I can sit with President Putin and say that this is not the time for war. And I can also tell President Zelenskyy, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield,” Modi said.

He added, “The resolution will only come when both Ukraine and Russia come to the negotiating table. Ukraine may hold countless discussions with its allies, but it will bear no fruit. Discussions must include both parties.”

Modi-Trump’s bromance

When asked about his bond with US President Donald Trump, PM Modi said that the reason why he and the US leader connected so well is because they both put their countries first. Modi said even after there was assassination bid on him during the campaigning for the presidential elections, he showed no fear and “remained unwaveringly dedicated to America”.